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  flyrodder

  Sept. 16, 2006, 9:21 a.m.

  More reason to have vouchers that follow your childern and not the school. You choose where to have your child educated.

  Tired of the NEA shoving their agenda down our throats and politicians bowing silently to them. Time for those that pay these "teachers" wages to stand up against them. Let them learn the lessons that Ford is now realizing. They don't educate anyway...they indoctrinate.
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  Joyce44

  Sept. 16, 2006, 9:59 a.m.

  Friends of mine have three preschool aged children. The mother is a former teacher and the father is a high school principal in a small suburban high school. They are planning to send their children to a private school. That says a lot to me, they work in the public educational system but don't want their own children there.

  Flyrodder says it very well. We need vouchers, parents need to have the choice to send their children where they will get the best education. If that results is some public schools loosing funding, then improve those schools. Our children should not be paying the price for poor educational standards and the NEA lobbiest trying to get what they want at the cost of the future.
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  Bobola

  Sept. 16, 2006, 11:30 a.m.

  Right decision. Education standards in public schools are appaling. The other issue is safety and quality of fellow pupils. However as far as demands on quality education is concerned only very few private schools guarantee better level. It is a long way before USA schools will reach european standards.
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  rkeni

  Sept. 16, 2006, 11:55 a.m.

  Nobody should be forced to pay for another childs education and therefore public schools should be abolished. School should be about teaching a child how to become an independent thinking, rational adult. Yet, the public school system by nature contradicts peronal responsibility.
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  midwifn

  Sept. 16, 2006, 11:59 a.m.

  I agree with all of you. The public school in our district is so horrendous, that when I was a child my parents pulled me out. They could not afford the local private school, so we were left with homeschooling as our only option. While I am icredibly thankful that I was educated at home, it is not a valid option for everyone. Thankfully within the past ten years our state adopted the voucher program. All of my sibling were able to school choice (it is only good within the public schools) to the BEST public school in the area. While it is not as good as a private school, it has offered AP courses and alternatives to our previously assigned district school.
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  Pisces84

  Sept. 16, 2006, 12:19 p.m.

  I am a product of the public school systems. I have a BA degree from a great university and I am now working on a Master's Degree. I feel as if the voucher program is brought to my city will lead to exclusivism as lower-income children fall through the cracks of this. Furthermore, overcrowding will become the issue as parents will want to send their children to one particular school. Instead of leaving public schools, there has got to be a way of fixing them. First, have only school board members with children in the city's system (which is a problem in my city) and lobby the states and government to fund these places. It is a pipe dream, as even universities have to keep raising tuition because the states are forgetting about them, but in the end I see that too many will be left behind with these voucher system.
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  Andorwyn

  Sept. 16, 2006, 12:19 p.m.

  Learning Standards followed by public schools are established by each state government. If you are concerned about the standards followed in your state - first read them. I cannot speak for all states, but those in my state are not appaling, poor, nor controlled by the NEA. Curriculums followed by each school district must be aligned with these standards. Any resident of a school district may review the curriculum as it is a matter of public record.

  Yes, I am a public educator and the NEA has never once tried to tell me what I should do, think, or say.
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  CameronKollwitz

  Sept. 16, 2006, 12:24 p.m.

  I went to a private school for Middle and High School. I chose to do this because of the atmosphere. It wasn't the education. Sure, I did know things afterward that set me apart from my friends in public school. But I really do think it is the atmosphere.

  Some people don't like being in the crowded public schools (here in California), and I certainly didn't enjoy having my hand raised for more than 30 minutes in a class - only to be dismissed and a question left unanswered.

  I would love to send my future children to a private school. I feel that it is certainly more beneficial than sending them to a public school.
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  Joyce44

  Sept. 16, 2006, 12:53 p.m.

  Pisces, I agree that we need to fix the public schools but that is not being accomplished and we are loosing generations of children while waitng. Of course this is a generalization, not true for each specific student. I, too am a product of public schools and have a BA. Bu, using a voucher system should force the public schools to be "fixed" when a mass exodus of students left.

  I don't understand you point that a voucher system would exclude lower income families. One of the main points of a voucher system is to distribute educational money equally across are income levels.So the advantage would be that lower income families would have the choice of sending thier children to private schools if they wanted to do so, which they can not do now for economic reasons.
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  david_nwpa

  Sept. 16, 2006, 2:25 p.m.

  I am a teacher in a public school. I am one of those indoctrinators referred to earlier in this post. I firmly believe the government keeps tying our hands. Education officials in Washington and the various states do not have degrees in education nor do they have practical experience in the classroom.

  I teach German and Math. I am forced, when I teach math to be certain that the material I present is focused on the State of PA standards and meets the diverse needs of each of my students all while remembering that many of my students have emotional and behavioral problems.

  When I teach German, I encourage my students to become independent thinkers. I force them to rely on their own knowledge, study the data I supply them, then make their own conclusions. We do this with a variety of topics.

  Broadly painting a picture of the public ed system as completely defunct is unfair to those of us who do make a difference in your children's lives.
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  david_nwpa

  Sept. 16, 2006, 2:29 p.m.

  We have a system in which we are frequently testing children and forcing them to spend more time out of the classroom studying math and reading to the detriment of other disciplines. Many districts cancel art, physical education, and music all in the name of meeting math and reading standards.

  The NCLB forces districts' students to be 100% proficient for all in both math and reading by 2014. Those goals are completely unrealistic. We work our hardest every day to make a difference in children's lives and often are ridiculed for not doing enough. Parents need to take some responsibility for their children, to say nothing of the children sharing responsiblity for their own learning needs.
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  david_nwpa

  Sept. 16, 2006, 2:33 p.m.

  No mandate exists in any state that forces parochial and private school teachers to have a degree in the field in which they teach. Many of the laws regarding continuing education do not apply to non-public school teachers.

  The NEA has as its motto, we want...Great Public Schools for all children.

  Once there was a rich blueberry distributor who spoke to an audience of teachers and demanded that they should be able to produce high quality lessons and educate students no matter who they have in their classroom.

  One teacher rose and asked what the distributor would do if the berries he received were rotten, discolored, or in any way unsellable. He announced that he would send them back to the farmer.

  The teacher responded with, "We cannot ship children back to their parents. We have to accept all the children who come to us no matter how battered and abused they are."

  Parents must take a more active role in their children's education.
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  Joyce44

  Sept. 16, 2006, 2:53 p.m.

  Since I have been overtly critical of the public schools may I please clarify that I was commenting on public education in general and not against any of the wonderful teachers that dedicate their lives to children. I know you teach in circumstances that many of us would never tolerate in our places of employment with a mirad of rules and regulations.

  Also, I feel that one component of the problems are lack of interst and involvment of parents. Everyone is so busy that they don't take time to help with homework or show much interst at all.

  Thank you to all good teachers everywhere. You are appreciated by some of us.
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  season

  Sept. 16, 2006, 3:20 p.m.

  Thank you Joyce and Ronin. I appreciate the the thanks.

  Well written David! I have worked in corporate America and currently teach in a public school. I have worked in a court appointed program, an alternative school and a traditional school. I have loaned money, purchased food and clothes for some of my students besides doing the duties that are part of the job description.

  I have a neice who is a teen & mentally impaired. She attends a school for special needs children. After NCLB, the number of studnts in her school rose significantly. One of my concerns with vouchers is that students who are special ed certified (this includes those who are learning disabled, emotionally impaired, etc...) (or have just immigrated and are still learning English) will not be welcomed at certain schools because of the "potential" of lowering test scores. And if those scores drop, there the wrath of NCLB.
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  david_nwpa

  Sept. 16, 2006, 6:21 p.m.

  Thank you one and all. We agree that a quality education is important for the success of children and the benefit of society. Most schools that are struggling to meet adequate yearly progress (AYP) suffer setbacks in their test scores in large part due to special needs students. They are tested by grade level as compared to being tested at their ability level.

  Other schools have ever shrinking populations and tax bases. The more companies we export overseas, the more jobs and hence taxpayer dollars we send with those jobs. For each factory that packs up and leaves town, many schools districts suffer to make up the tax loss.

  Many schools suffer from neglect, mismanagement, and inefficiency. Other schools are models for the community. Those schools that are suffering usually want for paper, pencils, and other basic supplies. Again your compliments toward good teachers is heartfelt. Thank you.
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  Carl2005

  Sept. 18, 2006, 10:38 a.m.

  I do not think the public school education today is anyway comparable to the education I received when I was a kid!

  See some articles on public schools are here :

  http://parenting.smatix.com/39323.php

  http://parenting.smatix.com/39324.php

  http://parenting.smatix.com/39326.php
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  Carl2005

  Sept. 18, 2006, 10:39 a.m.

  And one more about the arrogance in some of these schools :

  http://parenting.smatix.com/39328.php

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